Andy Payne has had an eclectic career in the games industry, from developing educational software, helping companies market their games to chairing one of the most influential bodies in the UK games industry.
He very kindly took time out from his busy schedule (Read a bit about�what UKIE are up to right now) to answer a few questions for us.
Well, let’s start from the beginning.
YARS) What is your general background.
Andy) Born in London and went to school in Hertfordshire, I always loved trying to be creative and I trained as a graphic designer in the early 80’s before spending 4 weeks in a merchant bank (I had nothing in common with the people I worked with and could not care less about the money they paid me) and then a year (1984) at William Collins in book publishing, . Frustrated by the lack of creativity I decided to change tack. William Collins had acquired an educational software publisher — Hill McGibbon and I rather liked the idea of dabbling with the computer game element of what they did.
Y) How did you end up getting involved in the games industry?
A) And following on from that…..so that was my introduction into the world of home computer software, all be it educational, a world of Commodore 16s and 64s, Spectrum 48ks and latterly Amstrad 464/664/6128. Great days. I left Collins and joined a specialist production company called Cosprint who helped games developers and publishers manufacture and distribute their games. We worked on classics such as ‘The Way of the Exploding Fist’ from Melbourne House, Trivial Pursuit from Domark, Marble Madness from Ariolasoft, The Seven Cities of Gold from EA, Yes Prime Minister from Mosaic and System 3’s International Karate. I worked there from 1985-1987 and in 1988 decided to take the plunge at the age of 24 and start The Producers which was my own business which focused on helping new games companies from the UK and USA get their games into the market. We worked with the likes of Interplay, Acclaim, Empire, Ocean, Maxis, Ubisoft, Activision, Electronic Arts, Virgin, Accolade, Codemasters, Mastertronic, Commodore and loads more. The Producers still exists and is part of the Mastertronic Group which owns Just Flight, Just Trains, Get Games, and Sold Out.
Mastertronic
Y) I remember Mastertronic from my C64 days as a brand always associated with decent budget releases. How did you get involved in the re-launch of the name in 2007?
A) The Producers and Sold Out had a great business relationship, Sold Out licensed all the PC games from publishers and sold them to retail and The Producers did all the manufacturing, production and distribution. We could both see the hardening of the PC packaged goods market and the onset of digital and we both knew that we needed to broaden into the console market. Thus in 2004 we agreed to merge the two companies. We needed a name, as my business partner and founder of Sold Out, Garry Williams, and I both agreed we needed to break away from pure PC budget and services. Our chairman at the time was the legend that was Frank Herman, now sadly no longer with us. Frank set up the original Mastertronic back in the early 80’s and offered to find out who owned the Mastertronic name and to see if he could buy it for us. Mastertronic 1.0 had been acquired by Virgin (hence Virgin Mastertronic) and their biggest partner was Sega, who launched the Master System through Virgin Mastertronic in the late 80s. It turned out that Sega still had the name, and Frank with his typical panache made a call to Tokyo and bought the name back in no time!
Y) Does the ‘New’ Mastertronic still own the rights to any of the older games from before? With the current trend of recreating old titles for new devices (Gianna Sisters and Speedball spring to mind), is there a chance we will see a similar move from Mastertronic?
A) That is a great question. So many of these old IPs are left hanging, some refer to them as orphan works, and often no one actually knows who owns them! Speedball is owned by the Bitmap Brothers still and Jon Hare (Sensible Software) has worked to bring these to the iOS and Android systems. Mastertronic are looking at acquiring rights back for some of the great games and taking these straight to digital in the mobile and social formats — so watch this space.
Y) How important is the budget sector as a whole to the industry.
A) It was always essential in my view for two fundamental reasons:-
1) To offer lower priced, good value products which have not cost as much to develop and thus should not be as highly priced as the AAA titles. This means that new gamers or gamers with less money to spend get affordable games.
2) To mine and sift the back catalogue of great titles from the big publishers and developers and offer those at a lower price — thus giving gamers a range of high quality, if more classic titles at affordable prices.
Y) I also read that Mastertronic started the Great Indie Games publishing label. Is this an area that is close to your heart personally?
A) Yes, very much so. Our motive is to offer a range of added value services to help developers publish their products either digitally or in conventional packaged form. We believe in helping young, fresh and innovative talent find gamers who may not want to be served a diet of AAA FPS or MMOs.
UKIE
Y) I would imagine that many people, who know your name, would know you from The Association for UK Interactive Entertainment (UKIE). How did you get involved in the UKIE?
A) The Producers and Just Flight were both members of the Entertainment Leisure Software Publishers Association (ELPSA) right from the very start and in 1998 I decided to put myself up for election to the board. It was a long shot, as all the board members represented the big publishers and format holders, Sony, Nintendo, Eidos, Microsoft, GT Interactive, Electronic Arts and Ubisoft amongst others. It took 2 elections to get on the board (2000)) and I must say I felt very much like the small fish in a very big pond. But as my grandfather always told me, ‘if you want to change the system, you always have to get into it’, so I was determined to play my part and ensure that the Association looked out for their small members as well as the big players. I became
chair in 2005 and we changed the name and constitution in 2010 to UKIE. I am very proud that we have widened the membership to represent developers of all shapes and sizes, publishers, academic institutions, service companies such as marketing agencies, media buyers, PR and communications, manufacturers, distributors both conventional and digital, technology specialists, charities, media, retailers, legal and R&D tax specialists. This means that we can represent the whole value chain and have a clear mandate to represent the industry as a whole to government, policy makers, media and the general public.
Y) On a day-to-day basis, what does the UKIE do for the games industry?
A) Crikey, there is so much that goes on. Broadly speaking, we concentrate on 4 key pillars all to do with promoting the UK video games and interactive entertainment industry to the public, government and media.
Firstly UKIE look at all aspects of intellectual property (IP), how it is built, how it is commercially exploited, and how it can built into a valuable asset. This also involves considering how IP can be protected as well as monetised. This means we talk to the international law makers, governments, the EU, ISPs, other technology companies, and consumer groups to ensure we take a pragmatic approach.
Secondly, UKIE look at the commercial issues and the business environment that the companies in the interactive entertainment industry face. We want the UK to be the best place to both create and consume games. We fight to get the tax system fit for purpose and encourage private investors to look at our industry favourably. This means talking to the Government about tax breaks to encourage inward foreign investment, incentivise research and development into new technologies, and highlight through research and evidence the worth of our industry to UK gross domestic product (GDP). We also look for creative ways we can encourage big corporations and small start ups to base their IP in the UK via the corporation tax regime, ensuring we are competitive on a worldwide basis. We also offer members services, whether they be discounts for events, research and reports or business services. This also extends to networking events between members and non members and regular meetings with politicians.
Thirdly UKIE are at the forefront of the education and skills initiatives and debate. The Coalition Government via the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) asked Ian Livingstone OBE, Life President of Eidos and Vice Chair of UKIE and Alex Hope OBE, CEO of Double Negative to work with NESTA to produce a report into how the UK can reignite it’s games making heritage and become the world’s leading talent hub for video games and special effects. This report was launched on 1st of February 2011 and UKIE took an immediate leadership role in the implementation of the twenty recommendations. Top of the list was getting Computer Science back on to the National Curriculum, something that the industry needs and will put the UK back challenging for top honours in a worldwide connected market place. UKIE has led and built a coalition of technology focused companies and will launch Next Gen Skills on the 28th of November 2011. Partners in this project are Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, EA, Activision and SEGA, plus leading UK creative development studios such as Blitz Games Studios, PlayGen and The Creative Assembly. Other launch supporters include Google, TalkTalk, the British Screen Advisory Council, Guardian Media Group, Intellect, IPA, British Computing Society, Abertay University, Skillset, GuildHE, e-Skills, NESTA and UK Screen (representing some of the world’s leading visual effects businesses, including Oscar winners Double Negative and Framestore). This work is ongoing and absolutely vital to the future of UKPLC.
The Livingstone Hope report also called for the games industry, rather than government, to implement many of the recommendations and again UKIE has taken the lead with the creation of a Video Games Ambassadors’ programme, to enable representatives from our industry to go into schools and talk to students. We also work with qualifications bodies to create the computer science qualifications needed by the next generation.
And finally UKIE has also worked with the BAFTA Young Games Designer and Dare to be Digital competitions, to promote our industry to a wider young audience.
Finally, UKIE takes the health, well being and social responsibility of its consumers very seriously. To that end our aim is to help consumers, policy makers and the media understand the considerable value the games and interactive entertainment industry has on society and culture.
We focus on:-
Health. Promoting safe and sensible gaming. Dispelling the myths.
GOVERNMENT. Making clear our commitment to consumer protection. Evangelising parental controls, age ratings and safe and sensible gaming. UKIE also continues to be a lead voice on the government’s UK Council for Child Internet Safety.
PEGI. Working with all the parties to take this over the finish line in the coming weeks. We hope to be able to give more information on the potential implementation date in the next month.
PEGI age ratings are now due to be implemented as the sole age rating system for games in the UK early next year. The delays in its implementation have been frustrating but UKIE has continued to work hard behind the scenes to make sure that the labelling regulations deliver what the industry needs. These regulations now need to be approved by the European Parliament and then the House of Commons before they become law in the UK.
This process should be complete in the early part of 2012. UKIE will be coordinating a PEGI public awareness campaign in the run-up to implementation as well as briefing the wider industry
Press. UKIE has been at the forefront of defending our members’ interests and promoting our industry in the press.
We have appeared in most national media outlets, in print, on TV and radio and online and shall continue to be active in all national, local and games media, promoting the industry and dispelling the myths that still sometimes exist around it.
Y) In an article I read recently, it stated that the UKIE represents the publishers of around 97% of all boxed games. How are you getting on with the other 3 % ?
A) Always trying to ensure we can encourage all parties to join our cause, it would be great to get to 100% representation and we will continue to strive to get there as soon as we can.
Y) If you had one sentence to summarise why publishers or other members of the games industry should get involved with the UKIE, what would it be?
A) If you care about the UK games industry and want to make a difference then come and join UKIE and let’s help the UK contribute to science, art and culture in a digitally connected age.
Y) What are you currently working on with the UKIE?
A) Most of the above. Main focus is access to finance, Government fiscal regulation, more members services, digital charts (PC, PSN and XBLA), the future of IP, London Games Festival 2012, Edinburgh Interactive 12, Next Gen Skills campa
ign, Communications Bill and the PEGI age ratings public awareness campaign.
Future
Y) It is clear to me and many others that the games industry in the UK is going to continue to become more and more important to the broader entertainment industry in the UK.
Why do you think that people still don’t see games as mainstream entertainment (by people I mean not just the public, but those in ‘power’.?
A) I think there has been a massive underestimation of the sheer consumer draw that games have and that most games are ‘made in the US or Japan’. When you ask the public where Grand Theft Auto or Batman Arkham City is made, the majority think it is the US, rather than the UK. Similarly huge games such as Runescape, Little Big Planet, Moshi Monsters, Club Penguin, Total War, Football Manager as well as Tiny Tower are all made in the UK. With the trailblazing of the Nintendo DS and Wii and now Smart phones such as the iPhone, everyone is playing games and the sheer economic draw does not go unnoticed amongst the policy makers, media and consumers alike. Perceptions are changing.
Y) How do you see this developing over the next few years. Will it be down to the huge games like Modern Warfare 3 or do you think it will take a more subtle approach?
A) I think we are seeing seismic and structural changes right now. Retail shops are no longer the only place where people can buy games. Equally AAA console games are not the only show in town, although they will inevitably they will always grab the headlines given the current level of revenues being generated. I can see the big franchises such as FIFA, Call of Duty, Assassin’s Creed, Grand Theft Auto, Batman, Halo, Unchartered, Mario Kart, Zelda and others continuing to sell in large quantities for many years to come, although the online element will continue to become increasingly important. MMOs such as World of Warcraft, Runescape and Rift will also engage gamers all over the world. But the rise of purely digital formats in the mobile space and the predominance of the Freemium model (which should perhaps be renamed ‘Free at the point of receipt’) means that consumer have a wider range of choices. Games like Angry Birds, Cut the Rope, Tofu and Tiny Tower have been discovered by millions of Smart phone owners and Facebook has been party to the Zynga factor, where Farmville and Cityville have literally engaged tens of millions of players many playing for free, with a small proportion paying something.
Y) I know you spend a large amount of time defending games in the media. Do you see any way we can bring an end to all of the sensationalism surround titles like Modern Warfare.
Will this be down to games developers being a bit more sensible about their content? (It does seem to me that some are a little deliberate in their misguidance of ideas).
A) To some degree, but we should always encourage a wide range of games for all ages. We have a robust system of age rating (PEGI) and that should ensure that there are adult themed games for adults and games that can be enjoyed by children and all ages. Variety is the spice of life and provided that the boundaries are clearly signposted then developers should be free to create games that explore all aspects of creativity from Portal 2 to Modern Warfare 3.
Y) Do we need some independent research that can once and for all clarify the effects that this kind of interactive media can have on people.
A) There is a paucity of research around games in general and many myths surround our industry. We do know that there is no clinical evidence that games are addictive, unlike alcohol and drugs for example. However, designing a great game is all about ensuring that the player is fully engaged and wants to play more. Therein lies the rub. Balance is so crucial and ensuring that all players do not play without suitable breaks is down to the education and common sense. I think there will be plenty of research undertaken in this area as we see always on connected devices become more and more important to individuals. Whether it be playing an iPhone game, a Facebook game, or just being on Facebook or Twitter, reading email or BBM, or just talking and texting for too long, watching too much TV, reading too much, or playing a console game for too long, watching too many movies with headphones, we are set to see connected devices play a bigger role in our lives and we have to remember not to allow these to prevail at the sake of all else.
Finally
Y) What is your favourite game of all time?
A) Pro Evolution Soccer or Sensible Soccer
Y) What are you playing right now?
A) Ah, FIFA 12, sorry PES ;-((
Y) If you could see one change happen in the next 6 months, what would it be?
A) For there to be a united trade association encompassing TIGA and UKIE’s membership in order that we can ensure that our fantastic UK industry can continue to create jobs and build wealth and prosperity for our nation and our people.
I would like to again thank Andy for taking the time out to answer these questions. To find out more about the UKIE, head over to ukie.info